The Queen’s Final Secret: What Really Happened at Balmoral | A Right Royal Podcast –  Hw

This is the Queen, known her age is. Picked up an imaginary banjo and began singing when I’m cleaning windows. She was at her most relaxed and normal with grooms, with breeders of racehorses, with jockeys, with stable lads and lasses, with pigeon fanciers. These were the people that she felt easy with.

Well, I did something very naughty that day. There was a race being started by Prince William. And then there was a starting pistol which she fired. Then he put it down. And I said to him, “Do you mind if I take that as God’s your DNA on it?” >> Hello and welcome to the latest episode of a right royal podcast with me, Andrea.

>> And me, Emily. >> We are riding a real high after our incredible live podcast recording last week at Brown’s Common Garden with royal author Robert Hardman. It was very special to be gathered with so many royal fans and listeners under one roof. >> Yes, there were so many fascinating insights about the late Queen Elizabeth II and what she was really like.

If you missed it, not to worry, our Hello VIP members can access the full recording by signing up to Hello VIP via the Hello magazine website. >> I think we’re both really excited for our guest this week, none other than broadcaster and royal biographer Giles Brandreth. He’ll be speaking with us about his brand new book, Elizabeth: An Intimate Portrait.

Shall we get going? >> Let’s do it. >> Giles, it’s an absolute delight to have you here. Thank you so much and congratulations on this beautiful biography. >> I’m thrilled with the book. I’m thrilled with the look of the book. >> It’s really special. >> And curiously because I began writing it a long time ago, when I read it, it seems oh, oh, how interesting.

Uh but I love the cover because uh it’s, you know, Elizabeth: An Intimate Portrait. And I think it’s an intimate photograph of the late Queen with one of her horses. And that was, you know, I think when she was, in fact, I know it’s when she was happiest, most at ease. >> I mean, we’ve seen a lot of pictures of the Queen and actually looking at this picture is one that you don’t see that often. So, it feels very fresh.

>> Well, what I like to think, and I’m I think this is true, as we all know, Elizabeth II, our longest-reigning sovereign, uh driven by duty, sustained by faith, both duty and faith were key to understanding her, but kept happy by her passion for her dogs and her horses. >> Mhm. >> They were the thing that sustained her throughout her life.

And one of the things that I I discovered when spending time with her, first of all, was how amusing she could be, but also that she was really quite shy as a person, even though she spent her entire life in the public eye, had met, you know, literally millions of people, and had met everybody in the world, as a person, she was quite a private and shy person.

And she was most comfortable, undoubtedly, with her dogs and her horses. >> I mean, because they didn’t expect too much from her, do you think? >> They didn’t expect anything from her and she was able to give to them. And also, they didn’t If they talked, they talked to one another. They never talked to the media. They never gossiped.

She could rely on them. >> Yes. >> Right from childhood, they they were her one uh you know, they were court to her. And in fact, one of the most touching witnesses in the book is a man called Teddy Pendry, who I think you know. You’ve met him. Who was the late Queen’s groom at Windsor and is still working there for a reason.

Because he worked for the late Queen for 28, 29 years. And towards the end of her life, she said to him, you know, “When I’m gone, you won’t retire, will you? Please stay here. >> Mhm. >> Um because I need you to be here to look after my pony.” Uh and so, he’s going to be there as long as the pony is there. >> And this is Emma, the pony.

>> This is Emma, the pony that the Queen last rode on only a few weeks before she died. And by then bless him, Terry would go out for these rides with her. And every year he had to add an extra step to the steps mount the mounting block because she became smaller and more frail. Um and she was able to climb on but right at the end he would have to lift her off she become so small and and frail.

And when she died um Terry thought I think it was his own idea that he would go and be on the long mile >> Mhm. >> to welcome the Queen back to Windsor for her final internment. And he he went there and he stood there with Emma. And when the car arrived bringing the Queen’s coffin uh it was Emma who bowed first.

>> It was the most poignant moment, wasn’t it? >> And he put his suit very touching. >> Yeah. >> I’m assuming the Queen was told not to ride but she would not listen. >> I don’t know whether I do not know. >> dared maybe to tell her? >> think I think to be honest I don’t think any wise doctor would have said that.

Because well not to contradict her but because it was keeping her alive. >> Yes. >> The Queen and Margaret Thatcher >> Mhm. >> two strong and interesting remarkable women of the last 100 years. They were born within a few months of each other. And Margaret Thatcher had a her passionate life was politics. And when that passion was denied her she had nothing to fall back on.

And eventually my wife and I were lucky enough to know her. Whatever you may think whatever your politics may be she was still our first woman Prime Minister was a formidable figure. Uh but she had nothing to fall back on and she became quite a sad and even a lonely figure after her husband died. But the Queen on the same year same vintage as Margaret Thatcher was happy I think to the end because of her our and her horses.

>> Her interests kept her. >> Uh, that passion. >> Mhm. >> You know, you need something um to keep you going and they certainly kept her going. Indeed, as the Duke of Edinburgh once said to me, “If it doesn’t fart or eat hay, she isn’t interested.” >> Now, I want to know how you came to be such a royal insider because as we see throughout the book and you know, you you spoke to Philip directly about many things.

You had many many uh moments with the Queen as well over the years. How did you come to play such a big part? >> In a way by chance. I mean, I as my family always interested in the royal family. I was born in the same year as the King, Charles the Third. Uh, and my I had a my godfather had a son who was the guardian governor of head boy at Gordonstoun >> Mhm.

>> when Prince Charles went there. So, we sort of took an interest and my father was a solicitor uh and he acted for the Duke of Edinburgh. When the Duke of Edinburgh got into trouble with driving, my father was a solicitor to the Automobile Association and the Duke of Edinburgh was the president of the Automobile Association.

And if you were a member of the AA in those days, you got free legal defense. So, the Duke of Edinburgh thought when he got a parking fine or speeding, um he’d get some free legal defense and it was from my father. >> Oh. >> So, I was first taken to Buckingham Palace as a little boy by my father as I was crunching across the gravel.

But, I really became involved in the 1970s. So, that’s 50 or more years ago when I got into a charity called the National Playing Fields Association. >> Yes. >> This was the first national charity that the Duke of Edinburgh took on when he became the Duke of Edinburgh in 1947 and married then Princess Elizabeth.

And he was the president of it, the Queen the late Queen was the patron. And I went to work for this charity just to do some volunteering and was amazed to find that he was there. >> Oh, we met him. in the building running the show. And gradually over the years I got to know him. And I’m not sure quite what he made of me, but I came to admire and respect him hugely and to like him enormously even though he could be quite frightening.

He could be fun, he could be charming, but he could also be terrifying. But he was a very kind person to me. And I’d been a member of parliament. And when I lost my seat in 1997, he phoned me up and said, “Oh bad luck, boy. What are you going to do now?” And I said, “Well, I’m going to go back to journalism, to writing, to broadcasting.

” He said, “Well, if there’s anything I can do to help, you know, let me know.” And I said, “Well, as a matter of fact, there is something.” I said, “I’m I’m writing interviews for newspapers. Would Could I be in Could I interview you?” He said, “Oh God.” I said, “You know, personally.” “Oh.” I said, “Well, you did say there’s nothing you could do to help.

” Yeah, I said, “This is it.” So, he agreed to give me an interview. And it was, I think, the first and maybe the only personal interview he ever gave. And I went to Buckingham Palace. By then I knew him reasonably well and had known him for over 25 years. So, I knew his style and and I think he knew I think he knew that I was quite lucky, but basically trustworthy and on his side.

And I remember I went with the recording apparatus. And at the last minute I lost my nerve about recording the interview. Because I didn’t want him to feel it was So, I hid it on the sofa under a cushion. And it wasn’t on. But I left the room at the end having forgotten that I’d left the recording in Prince Philip’s study.

>> Oh, goodness. >> But we had this fascinating conversation. And the newspaper interview appeared and uh friends of his said, “Oh, it’s jolly good. You come over quite well.” So, he then got in touch with me and said, “I need a biography written of me. One of my charities, will you do it?” And I did it. >> Mhm.

>> With his involvement. Which was a nightmare. Because he didn’t like >> Anything. >> So, he said, “Well, for example, I mean, he is interesting. I know we’re here to talk about Elizabeth the Second and we will. Though this is fascinating. >> But he’s an important part of her life. >> He is key.

People talk about the success of her reign, but it was a joint success, you know? Um anyway, uh for example, he had this most unusual childhood. >> Mhm. >> He was the His grandfather, the King of Greece, he was Prince Philip of Greece, his grandfather had been assassinated. His father, in the year of Prince Philip’s birth, was involved in a trial, political trial in Greece, and the the family had to escape into exile.

Prince Philip, his four older sisters, his mother, they all went first to Italy and then up to France, where they lived for 10 years, and his family then broke up. His mother had a nervous breakdown, ended up in a clinic in Switzerland. His father floated down to the south of France and ended up living on a yacht with a girlfriend.

And his older sisters, they married different German princelings. So, I wrote about this in the book. And two things. One, he said, “What’s this all about? My my father floating down to the south of France?” I said, “Well, sir, I was trying to convey that your father was something of a boulevardier, enjoyed the occasional glass of wine and a well-turned ankle.

I thought saying he floated down to the south of France conveyed that rather deftly, sir, you know?” He said, “My father did not float down to the south of France. My father went by train.” And then I said during the Second World War, “You mentioned his dispatches. He was a heroic figure. An incredibly handsome You see the pictures of him.

I mean, no wonder she fell for him. I’ve got some wonderful pictures of of them when they were young together.” Anyway, during the Second World War, I said he’d served on HMS Ramillies. He said, “I didn’t serve on HMS Ramillies.” I said, “But sir, you did. You very kindly lent me the logbooks. I know you served on HMS He said, “I did not serve on HMS Remus.

” I said, “Sir, you lent me the logbooks, you mentioned the dispatches, you served on HMS Remus.” He said, “No, I served in HMS Remus. You don’t live on your house, do you? You live in your house. Don’t you know anything, stupid bugger?” Um so, it could be quite frightening. But as a result, I published a book about him. And then I thought I would love to do a book about the Queen.

And he knew I was doing this. And I remember it was at the Royal Variety Performance. At the Royal Variety Performance as their guest. Guest the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh. And as I arrived and the Queen was shaking my hand, he lent towards her. This is Prince Philip. I’m shaking the Queen of England’s hand.

He lent towards her and said, “You know who he is, don’t you?” She said, “Yeah, yes.” “He’s writing a book about you. He’s going to cut you into little pieces.” She looked quite alarmed. And I hope he was joking, but I’m not sure that he totally was. I mean, it was very, very interesting being with him. I think sometimes he thought I was a sort of odd inquiry who just turned up and hadn’t gone away again.

But he went along with it, which was very interesting. For example, um I wear these funny jumpers. And I remember we went to open a sort of playing fields, sports facility somewhere. And I said, “I want you, sir, to stay the wings. I’ll go on as the frog, and I’ll rub my jumper and then I’ll say, ‘Look, I can make a frog turn into a prince.'” And then you appear.

And he went along with that. >> He liked that. >> could be fun. What was interesting about him is he was easy to talk to. >> Yeah. >> Elizabeth the Second was not so easy to talk to. But through knowing him, I was invited to events and parties where they would be where it wouldn’t be a formal occasion. So, the late Queen couldn’t move her handbag from one wrist to the other wrist to indicate to an equerry or a lady-in-waiting they should come and rescue, huh? She had no signals to give.

So, I occasionally found myself standing, chatting, or sitting, chatting with the Queen. And because I don’t know much about dogs and horses, how do you begin the conversation? So, I usually tried to take some public event that had happened and sort of get into it that way. And I remember one of my most fascinating times with her, it was quite a long conversation about the Second World War.

And it must have been around Armistice, because that’s what we were talking about. And I said, “What do you remember?” And she first of all talked about Winston Churchill. And she really I mean, she never talked politics and never gave you a feeling that she preferred one Prime Minister to another.

Though, I can tell you it was a myth that she didn’t like Margaret Thatcher. >> Yes. >> The only two Prime Ministers whose funerals she went to were those of Margaret Thatcher and Winston Churchill. And indeed, she went to Margaret Thatcher’s as it’s 70th birthday. Anyway, uh to a you know, a pri- private party. But, she talked about Churchill with so much respect and with love, actually.

Because he had been during the Second World War the right-hand man to her father, George the Sixth, and she loved George the Sixth more than anybody. So, that Winston Churchill was key to her. Curiously, Winston Churchill was one of the bugbears in a way to the Duke of Edinburgh. Because when she became Queen in 1952, remember she was only 25 years of age.

And she had this husband a few years older, in his late 20s. And he suddenly discovered, as he said to me, “Had to keep out.” I said, “Weren’t there people telling you what to do?” He said, “No, no, no. They told me to stand out of the way. Keep out.” So, I had to find my own thing to do. And she was left basically being guided by her private secretary, who had been her father’s private secretary, and by Winston Churchill, who was then the Prime Minister.

But, we talked about that. And then we talked about the war years. And I asked her what she remembered most. And she said, “Oh, I remember the Oh, the shows on Saturday nights. People came and entertained us.” And she said, “Oh, and I remember Oh, what was he called? George Formby.” She said, “I loved George Formby.

” And he was a fellow who sang to ukulele. I said, “Oh, yes.” She said, “Oh, I I loved him. I I knew all his songs.” She said, “I know them still.” I said, “Oh, really?” She said, “Yes.” Oh, and then she began This is the Queen now in her 80s. Picked up an imaginary banjo and began singing, “When I’m cleaning windows.” And I knew that she did impressions.

And I’d heard that. And I said, “Is that when you got into impressions?” And she said, “Yes, it was during the war because there was a a woman who did impressions on the radio, the wireless, who I admired hugely and who came to Windsor Castle and entertained us. And I loved the impressions that she did.

She did people like Vera Lynn or Marlene Dietrich, Mae West, famous people of the war years.” And I said, “And you wanted to be a bit of an impressionist?” She said, “Oh, yes. I said, “You want to be the Mike Yarwood of your day?” She said, “Oh, yes.” She said, “Oh, I do like Mike Yarwood cuz he does accurate impressions that are always very kind.

” And she could do proper impressions. I know, for example, she could do a whole routine of Grange Hill. >> Oh my goodness. >> That does not That surprises you, does it not? >> It really surprises me. >> Uh she could do scene a scene from Grange Hill. >> With all the child actors? >> With all the child actors.

Uh she didn’t often do people. She did more uh types, characters, different regional accents. Though, one of her private secretaries said, uh “Reverend Ian Paisley is to die for.” >> Oh, I’d pay so much money to hear her do that. >> Not only that, she could do things. Obviously, she could do horses and dogs. But she could do airplanes because she lived at Windsor Castle, as she liked to say as a little joke, “So annoying to have built the castle so near the airport.

” Anyway, that’s what they did. And she could recognize, for example, whatever the make of airplane was. And she did a very effective Concorde landing. And the the change of gear, the wheels coming down, all the noises. She could do Concorde landing. And Terry Pendry, her groom, told me that they would go for rides in the afternoon when Concorde was coming in.

And the Queen would always wave at Concorde cuz she loved the airplane. She’d wave at And this has been going on for a while. And Terry noticed or the Queen noticed that on a certain days Concorde dipped its wings as it flew past when she was waving at it. She rather liked that. And because she was the Queen, I suppose she would thought I’m well I’m going to >> back.

>> find out more. So, she got her private secretary to phone Heathrow Airport and find out who was flying Concorde on on these days. And it turned out that Concorde, this supersonic airplane, had all all the pilots were men except for one woman. And it was when that one woman was flying Concorde, she saw the Queen.

She dipped the wings. >> Oh, incredible. >> It’s a touching story. >> Isn’t it wonderful? >> That’s incredible. >> That’s what I say. I mean, I have to say writing writing the book, I I found myself sort of tearing up on almost >> look emotional now. >> every page. I mean, because somebody who was in part of our lives >> Yes.

>> for all our lives for most of us. You know, even with an old person like me, she was 70 years the Queen, so she was everybody’s life. And the lovely thing about writing an intimate portrait as opposed to, you know, an official or a serious I mean, she obviously her main role was to be the head of state.

She met everybody. Even people who wouldn’t necessarily want to meet. She had to be polite to Mr. Putin. She met them all. And of course we have to cover that. But it actually it’s when you get to know you want to know what she was really like. And she wasn’t quite as she appeared to be. She was very funny. >> Mhm.

>> Uh and wickedly funny. And also much more radical than you would expect. >> In what way, John? >> Well, this is what surprised me. She was a more modern person cuz I always thought of her as very conservative. >> Mhm. >> You know, her philosophy was to go with the flow. She like to do things that always been done before.

That’s what we always say. And yet when I was chatting to her and it was when we were talking one day I something about cost of living. And I’d been in John Major’s government. He’d been the Prime Minister. We’re talking about the cost of living and um we’re talking actually she’d seen John Major that day. And I thought you didn’t really talk about politics.

We’re talking about the cost of living. She began talking to me about the cost of pizzas, take away pizzas. This is the Queen. Uh and I thought how on earth did she know about this? And clearly maybe children, grandchildren were doing this and and And I said to one of her private secretaries, you know, now I’ve spent some time with the Queen.

She seems not quite the conservative, do it as you’ve done it before, restrained person that she always appears to be in public. And I said she seems quite radical at times and she he said that’s deliberate. I said, “What do you mean that’s deliberate?” She feels she ought to be conservative with a small C because her philosophy is that she should go only at the pace of the slowest person in the kingdom so that nobody in the kingdom should ever feel left behind.

>> Wow. >> Strongly. >> It’s absolutely extraordinary. There are so many lovely details about her in this, but we were really curious to know what most surprised you because you’ve had all these experiences with her. I know there’s one story that really leaped out at me and that was about her obsession with pigeons.

Can you tell us a bit about this? >> Well, I mean, this is almost beyond belief. Um but it it I know it’s true because the man who told me was there. Uh at Sandringham she discovered that there was somebody who was a pigeon fancier. And he had a pigeon loft. Uh and this was near Sandringham. And the point is she went pigeon fancying with this pigeon fancier.

On the council estate, she actually went to his loft because she loved pigeons. They were royal pigeons sending them from here to there. Uh and it really goes back to her love and feeling of security with animals. Uh and with people around them. So that somebody who was a pigeon breeder, pigeon fancier, like this fellow, who became a friend of the Queen, or Terry Pendry, who was, you know, he was staff.

Outside of this, you’d call him a servant. He was the groom. But actually, the Queen saw him as a friend. And he never overstepped them. None of these people ever overstepped the mark. You always knew she was the Queen. That was one of the challenges. Uh there was an invisible moat around her. Uh people always treated her.

But when there are animals there, you can’t really quite do that because the dogs are snuffling, the horses are in your face, the pigeons are flying everywhere. Uh it’s not easy. So, she was at her most relaxed and normal with grooms, with breeders of racehorses, with jockeys, with stable lads and lasses, with pigeon fanciers.

These were the people that she felt easy with. Because they spoke the same >> Yeah, people that loved animals the same as she loved them. >> But you’re right. It’s an extraordinary phenomenon. Uh the Queen in on the Council of State, having mugs of tea with the pigeon fancy. Yes. >> You also talk a lot about their marriage, what they were like as parents, you know, the Queen and Prince Philip.

You also uncovered a story about the Queen Well, I hadn’t heard of it before. The Queen suffering a miscarriage as well. >> So, lots of >> Yes, and I yes, cuz this is the book and I I No, I had I decided this is, you know, I’m telling my story of Elizabeth II. So, I will I’ll put it all in, you know, if the King was circumcised and it happens to be in knowledge, you you put it in.

If the Queen, I’m told reliably, it once, you know, it goes in. But, I actually I’m not saying it myself. I’m just quoting witnesses cuz I think I’m the person probably who talked about, you know, the cause of death and all of that for the first time. So, that is in there. But, I hope it’s sort of almost in passing.

Her relationship with Prince Philip is fascinating. Because to live with the same person for so long and to get along so well is extraordinary. They were an amazing double act. Uh, and I was very pleased that one of her friends who’d been at the wedding actually wrote to me when they’d read the book and said, “I think you’re the first person to get them right.

” Because they had this understanding. Uh, because nobody could treat her normally. I remember being at the Royal Variety Show with them. And in the interval we went into some receiving area where the Queen, because she was there that day was to be presented to lots of people. And the Duke of Edinburgh and I stood to the side of the room.

And when he was with her, he was very protective of her. He would say to the press, “Out of the way! Out of the way! People want to see the Queen! Out of the way!” Really quite frighteningly. And so, he really did. So, we were standing at the edge of the room, and he’s holding a glass, leaning against the wall, watching the scene.

And she was very small, and she turned towards him, caught his eye, and she was holding a glass, too, and he raised his glass to her. >> Aw. >> And she raised the glass back, and I thought, “This is it. This invisible moat, and yet there is this thread between these two people.” As he often pointed out to me, he was far more royal than her.

They were both great-great-grandchildren of Queen Victoria. Um but he had been descended on both sides from royalty. She on only one side. There wasn’t a czar, an emperor, a kaiser he wasn’t related to. So, they were totally royal, and therefore it meant everything to them and nothing to them. >> Mhm. >> And there was an ease and intimacy between them that was extraordinary.

Uh also, he was very funny. When he was young, he was very handsome. Uh when he was older, he was very funny. He was still very handsome till the end. Um and he, well, he would just didn’t have didn’t have time for any nonsense. Um so, they got on they just got on famously. And they were both very tolerant of each other. They had separate interests.

I mean, they would go together. He always did the official stuff. So, you know, she loved going to Royal Ascot. They went down on the parade together. He was there. They got into the room into the you know, the royal box at Royal Ascot, and she’d watch the racing. He’d go into the side room and watch the cricket.

>> Mhm. >> Or sometimes he’d get the car to take him back up to Windsor Castle. Then he’d come back for the tea. So, he always did the duty, but they gave each other the freedom to pursue their own enthusiasms. But he was deeply involved in everything. You know, the speeches that she wrote. They were also, both very, I think, very good parents.

And for their generation, they were very hands-on parents. I say this, obviously I wasn’t around in 1948, 1950, you know, when the Princess Anne and Prince Charles were first born, but I did talk to a lot of people who knew them then, and they were hands-on. They played with the children. Um and you know, people have different recollections of their childhood.

Princess Anne has no complaints about hers, and I don’t think actually the King does now. I think when he was quoted as having reservations about his childhood, he was going through a tough patch in his own life. Um so they were actively engaged in their bringing up their children, and concerned when things went wrong.

And Prince Philip particularly was a very practical person who wanted to help. Um you know, like men want to sort everything out. Wanted to sort everything out. >> And the Queen was a bit more non-confrontational, wasn’t she? I think did she She left a lot to him in terms of the family.

They were tricky things to deal with. >> And the sense that she wore the crown and he wore the trousers. I mean he chose where they went to school, that sort of thing. He was in He was in charge of that. You wouldn’t want to argue with him. >> No. >> Um to be honest, you you you really really wouldn’t. But she did. Uh Countess Mountbatten, the daughter of Earl Mountbatten of Burma, who was an uncle of Prince Philip, uh and was I think they were cousins of the Queen’s.

Um she told me how she was driving, she and the Queen were sitting in the back of the car, and they were driven by Prince Philip at such incredible speed, it was terrifying. And the Queen was going you’re yelping, and Prince Philip said to her, “Shut up, woman. I’ll turn you out. Shut up. I’ll turn you out on the on the motorway.

” And um when they got out of the car, Countess Mountbatten said to the Queen, “You really shouldn’t let him speak to you like that. You know, you are the Queen. You shouldn’t really be speaking like that. And the queen replied that she meant it. And I really didn’t want to be caught stranded on the motorway. >> It all goes back to driving offenses, Charles, you know.

It was about I’ve been hearing this for 2 days that he was an awful driver. >> Well, he thought he was a very good driver. >> Only he did. >> Was it President Obama? He drove around him in Windsor. I mean, the >> I was there that day and I was absolutely mortified. >> it. The cars that was not that was not planned. He just got into the car.

>> It was very funny. >> Obama, you know, the women go in the back, even though it’s the queen. The women go in the back, the men sit in the front. >> I was there and the faces on the on the secret service agents was an absolute picture. We they had moments of notice to see that this was going to happen and you just could see them go white with fear.

>> I once went on a long drive in the car behind them. I forget where we were going, but somewhere in the West Country. They had a long day visiting and they came back in the same car and they were going wherever they were going. So, they got into the same car together and I was in the car immediately behind with the private secretary of the police, the equerry, and so we followed them.

And quite close we followed them. And it was interesting, the moment they got into the car, they’d been separated since the morning. He began chatting. And then she chatted. And for half an hour, you watched these two late middle-aged people, cuz this is quite a few years ago, just gossiping and chatting together, laughing, half an hour just good-humored conversation.

So, they had that together, which is special. >> And it changed a lot when Prince Philip died. Was that a huge void in her life? >> Well, as the queen said, you know, grief is the price we pay for love. She had a great blessing in her life and that was her faith. Her faith was everything to her. I I was lucky enough to know and speak to all her Archbishops of Canterbury.

Um you know, who would acknowledge that she probably said her prayers even more assiduously than they did. Uh, if nobody would go to church more often than the Queen. >> Mhm. >> Uh, you know, those public events when she would be seen going to church, um, in Scotland or wherever it was, she’d often been earlier privately to the 8:00 a.m.

Holy Communion, then came back later for the 10:00 service where she would be filmed and photographed. >> Mhm. >> Faith was everything to her. So, that an acceptance that life ends in death was part of being, in her case, a really straightforward Christian. >> Mhm. >> That’s what she was. So, that for her would have been a source of huge comfort.

But, of course, when you’ve been with somebody and they had a happy time at the end of their lives because he had a bolt-hole on the Sandringham estate, um, where recently briefly, uh, his son, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, stayed before having his permanent quarters there. And it’s a quite a normal farmhouse. Uh, and Prince Philip used it as a kind of bolt-hole.

And during lockdown, though, the Queen went and joined him there towards the end of his life. >> Mhm. >> So, they sort of almost played house together. >> Yeah. >> And took them back to some of their best days, which were after the war when she was simply really a naval wife. Except that she was Princess Elizabeth, uh, and she was going to be Queen.

But, he was serving in and they could have a more domestic time. So, towards the end of their life, they had that as well. >> I think it’s really quite extraordinary to see how much he supported her. But, I’m interested as well to to hear what you think about the way younger generations may model themselves.

I’m thinking particularly of William and Catherine having their, you know, the Queen and Prince Philip as sort of role models for their own future positions. Do you think that that will be quite influential? >> I think it’s hugely influential. I think it is hugely influential. I actually saw Prince William on the day that there was the handover of um something the Duke of Edinburgh was handing something over to the next generation.

And I I remember the day vividly for a number of reasons. The Duke of Edinburgh couldn’t come because he was not well, but the Queen was there. I remember, too, I did something very naughty that day. There was a race being started by Prince William. And then there was a starting pistol which he fired. And then he put it down.

And I said to him, “Do you mind if I take that? It’s got your DNA on it.” So, I picked it up. And I took this I’ve still got it. I took this now I took this starting >> sent it to a lab? >> and I took I put it very carefully in my pocket. >> Oh my gosh. >> Little thinking, of course, that later in the day I’d have to leave this enclosure and I’d be going through security.

>> With a gun. >> With a gun. And they discovered I had a gun on me. It was only a starting pistol and I told the whole story. Anyway, that’s not the point of the story. The point of the story is this. I was seconded to walk around with Prince William and Catherine. And it was fascinating because he is a combination of the Duke of Edinburgh and Elizabeth II.

In the sense he can do all the fun stuff the Duke of Edinburgh could do. The going out there and asking the questions. But without quite the aggression that the Duke could be. >> Mhm. >> And the being contrary. The Duke of Edinburgh was always contrary. Whatever you said, he would contradict you. >> Mhm. >> Uh and the two most familiar words that came out of his mouth were, “Yes, but.

” He had to argue with everything. So, he wasn’t contrary like that. So, he had his grandfather’s sort of get up and go and moving everywhere at speed, but he also had his grandmother’s inner calmness and ability to listen to people and I thought, well, isn’t this a blessing? You actually got the best of these two remarkable people who’ve been doing it for so long.

>> That’s amazing. >> So, yeah. >> I mean, we say that about William and Catherine, but if if we think closer, you know, King Charles and Camilla, you were saying before how they, you know, the Queen and Prince Philip had different interests and I feel like I see that a lot with King Charles as well and Camilla.

They have very similar ones like, you know, that they’re chickens and their animals, but they sometimes go different ways, spend time, you know, doing their own little hobbies >> Yes. >> you know >> They do. Though I have to say what I’ve noticed because I’m lucky enough to be a trustee of the Queen’s reading room. This is Queen Camilla’s project for encouraging the joy of reading.

And I’ve noticed that when she has events, uh the King unannounced often turns up. Um she comes down the stairs, he comes walking two paces behind her. >> He plays the consort on those. >> Yes. >> Doesn’t he? >> And he applauds first with yeah. So, that’s quite touching uh and that’s a little bit different from the way the late Queen was um with Prince Philip who was was attendant upon her, but I don’t think she ever came and played second fiddle.

>> No. It’s nice and refreshing though to see that. >> with him anyway. >> I wanted to ask you though that there are some rumors, there’ve been so many rumors over the years about the late Prince Philip and I think you deal with it very deftly in the book. >> Well, I hope I deal with it truly and accurately. >> Well, you do.

You don’t shy away from it, but also, you know, when push comes to shove, you say, “Look, I don’t think anything happened.” >> Well, you see, this is what People don’t want to believe this. >> Mhm. >> Um but I go into this Yeah, and you will have to get the book for this. It’s an intimate portrait really of the Queen, but it’s also an intimate portrait of the Duke of Edinburgh.

Whose loyalty to the Queen was complete. That’s what his life was all about. And yes, he had flirtatious friendships. He was of a generation where maybe that was more acceptable than it would be now. Uh and indeed I I talked to um number of people quoted at length one of them who’d been a very close friend of his.

And in the sense that nothing happened. >> Mhm. >> Doesn’t mean to say there wasn’t an intimate friendship. Um but I don’t believe he was a philanderer. >> Mhm. >> And you will get, no doubt, books, people saying these extraordinary things because it sells. But I do remember once, oh long time ago, in the 1990s, I went to see him and he produced from a drawer a folder of cuttings.

He says, “Look at this.” And I was They were newspaper cuttings, mainly from foreign newspapers, a lot of Australian newspapers, about alleged affairs that he was supposed to have had with all sorts of people, other members of the royal family, >> Mhm. >> um actresses, models, going back over many years.

I mean, it was a thick folder of cuttings. And he says, “Not a word of truth in this. Not a word of it. What could I do about it?” Now, what surprised me was that he’d kept the cuttings. >> It obviously really annoyed him. >> Really annoyed him. He then photocopied them and sent them to me. Uh because it so annoyed him. And he said, “Well, what am I going to do about this? And he said, “If I take it to court, uh as Prince Harry has done in recent years, uh it ends up, you know, as we’ve seen, everything is then replayed in court, and you end up, as they say, no smoke

without fire, what was going on, etc. So, he just had to grin and bear it. But he did find it very, very frustrating. I mean, there were ludicrous stories about uh rumors of the time about the late Queen uh having had an affair with Lord Carnarvon, who was her racing manager, and indeed was a very close friend of the Queen’s.

I mean, really a best friend because of the horses. That was their shared love. Um The truth is, Queen and Prince Philip loved Lord Carnarvon and his wife, and they would go there to celebrate their wedding anniversary, and they would have family suppers, all of them. Um with Lady Carnarvon making the supper. But the photograph, of course, was only of Lord Carnarvon with the Queen looking at the animals.

So, what was going on? And then people have suggested that he could possibly have been the >> The father, yeah. I think that I think that rumor has resurfaced just this week. >> has resurfaced, and it is I mean, I just Anyone who knew the late Queen for more than I’d say 30 seconds, but certainly for more than a few minutes, and if you actually observed her, will know that this woman never had an affair with anybody >> Mhm.

>> apart from her husband. I mean, you know, that’s the way it was. It is just impossible. And actually to be going around saying it is wrong. And when people are dead, it’s I think doubly wrong. It’s worse cuz you can’t be sued. You get away with saying anything. So, there’s certainly nothing in that.

But I don’t shy away from that. Indeed, I went to interview the present Lord Carnarvon, who happens to be a friend of mine, Geordie, about it. And I said, “Do you know your parents know?” He said, “Yes, they knew, and the Queen knew, and Prince Philip knew these rumors. And my parents found it so embarrassing as you can imagine.

I mean, my father just didn’t know what to do.” >> Yeah. >> Um so, it’s it’s ghastly when people >> Horrible for the people involved, actually. It’s far worse than it is >> which is curious, that these people are real people. >> Mhm. >> That’s why for the Queen, the dogs, the horses, the pigeons were so important because they knew she She a real person.

>> Now, you mentioned before that you know a lot of details or what you were the first to publish details about her death. >> Mhm. >> Um what else have you uncovered about her later life that has surprised you the most? >> Mhm, surprised me the most? How she kept her sense of humor. How she kept her optimism. How she, through her faith, really believed that everything will be all right.

>> Mhm. >> Which explains the power of her speech during COVID. >> Mhm. >> Because she really believed it. Um she and uh Prince Philip, they believed in the philosophy of breaking the mirror. They didn’t think about themselves at all. I know that they were both anxious when Diana and uh Sarah Ferguson like he came on the scene.

There was so much coverage for them that they might think it was about them. And I remember the Duke of Edinburgh saying to me, “You know, in 1953, we went on a royal tour of the Caribbean. Do you remember you were on the mirror?” I don’t remember. He said, “We went to Australia and millions of people, millions, turned out to cheer the Queen. Wasn’t me.

They came out to cheer the Queen.” And if she as a young woman had thought it was for her, it would have been corrosive. >> Mhm. >> And he said, “My fear is that we’ve been turned into a soap opera, that we are perceived as celebrities. And if they think they’re celebrities, they’re going to come a cropper because and so he believed in breaking the mirror, not thinking about yourself.

Don’t turn your life into one long selfie. Don’t brood about yourself. Always look on Talk about other people. They never talked about themselves. Um I said, “But you gave the first television interview, sir.” He said, “Yeah, but to talk about my projects, not to talk about me.

You know, nobody’s interested in me.” I said, “Well, they are, unfortunately.” He said, Um but I think that’s what surprised me. There was no self-pity in the Queen at all. And I read somewhere the other day, I don’t know where it was, that towards the end of her life, I actually saw this in a headline, that she was gaga. I mean Yeah, I >> I know who wrote that was not kind.

>> But it would also if I may say so, it is >> completely incorrect. >> bollocks. >> Mhm. >> I mean uh >> You can say that louder if you like. >> Well, no, I don’t wish to because I’m not the Duke of Edinburgh, who might well have used that word. Um but it’s extraordinary to say something that is the reverse from truth.

It gets into print and then people begin it. >> Believe it. Again, as you say, when people have passed away >> Yeah, you can say anything. >> People think there’s no right. >> the truth is, her passing was extraordinary because she was as sharp as a tack um 2 days before she died. In the morning, she was doing her official duties, saying goodbye to one prime minister, welcoming another.

Uh my little joke is that the government of the day was trying to get through as many prime ministers as possible, as quickly as possible, to get her into the record books. Otherwise, it might have been Queen Victoria who had more prime ministers. So, they’re trying to get them in.

But she did her duty in the morning, and then she watched the races in the afternoon, and one of her horses won. >> Mhm. >> So, what a way to go. >> I know. On a high. >> Um and though she’d been ill for a while, she knew Well, we all knew because you could see her mobility was limited, etc. Um and also, she was 96 years of age. And then she she went.

Well, what a perfect way to go. >> And she knew she would be going in Balmoral. It’s what we’ve heard recently, that she knew was her last summer. >> Yes. Well, I think I don’t know. I’ve not yet been that age. My mother died at the same age, at 96. And um you you you do know. >> Yeah. >> Um I think I think you do. >> I think so.

>> Um >> I wanted to ask, just back to your point about breaking the mirror, which I think is fascinating. What do you think that they, the Queen and Prince Philip, would make of the way other members of the family have have absolutely talked about themselves. And I’m thinking particularly about Spare, for example.

>> interviews >> and the Netflix documentary. >> Well, we know what they would have thought. I mean, you know, it’s totally what they would have thought. >> Which is hit >> Dangerous, don’t do it. >> Yeah. >> Just and you end up you end up where you are. >> Yeah. >> Don’t do it. Um, you know. And I I do know how much they loved their grandchildren.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but it was it was it was the thing it is total madness. >> Yeah. >> What is to be gained by it? Nothing is to be gained by it. Uh, that was their view and and they never did it. >> The other thing to say though is that they did go with the flow. >> Mhm. >> They recognized the changing media scene.

That’s reflected a Well, simply actually, it’s a wonderful display of the Queen’s fashions over the years. >> Yes. >> Seeing as it was the hemline changing. But if you watch the way her accent changed over the years uh, from that deep pinched voice right at the beginning through to more relaxed and that. They know that the world changes.

They know they have to be adaptable. But they wouldn’t have advised that. >> No. >> Don’t do it. >> Talking about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, which was briefly mentioned, you actually mentioned the reaction of the Queen to the naming of Lilibet, which is not as negative as it has been portrayed in the media.

>> Yes. I mean, because that was the way the Queen was. Um, I mean, obviously Lilibet was her infant name and our family name and only used by really intimate members of the family. And I think she First of all, I know that she was excited for Harry with Meghan, all that. Was excited. I was delighted to see that the Queen took Meghan on Meghan’s first trip out with the Queen to my old constituency of Chester.

And I know that the Queen was very pleased with how Meghan did her bit that day. It all went very well indeed. When she got the call saying, “We’re going to call uh, Lilibet.” I think I think it isn’t I think it’s not quite right to say I didn’t hear the phone call. But my So my second-hand sources not quite right to say that she was asked.

I think it she was told we’re thinking of calling her Lilibet. What do you think? Oh. Oh. Yes. Um because I’m sure if she had felt no, she could have said no. And there she went along with it because she was a nice decent person. And then I do know that when she heard they were calling her Lily. >> She said, “Oh, that’s lovely. That’s lovely.

” So there was no confusion. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> I love that. >> No mixing things up. >> I mean, in a way, to picture the Queen, you’ve got to think of a country woman of her generation. And that’s tragic. You’ve got to think of a grandmother. >> Yeah. >> So her response would be a grandmother’s response. >> Mhm. >> And so if you asked her about her children, she always did them in chronological age.

She says no not not to show any preference. >> Yeah. >> And you ask about the grandchildren, she tried to work out who was the child of who. Um so she did all the things that you should correctly do. And of course she would get fed up and go, “Oh dear. That might be Oh dear, I’m not sure about that.” >> Mhm. >> I had a question about um her fairness because there’s a lovely anecdote in the book about you attending the Royal Variety Performance with them.

>> Sweet story. >> And observing the way she had the same amount of applause for everyone. >> to the interval and I said the Duke of Edinburgh is a bit of a nightmare because uh at the Royal Variety Show, which happens every, you know, November. Um I think this was maybe the last one that they went to. They’re sitting in the Royal Box because they had to have to be seen to support the charities.

And on the front of the dress circle is what is called an autocue machine, which gives the words that the host of the show can read for their next link. From the Royal The audience can’t see cuz they’re all facing the stage, but from the Royal Box you can see it. >> Mhm. >> The Duke of Edinburgh caught sight of this, so he kept reading the lines to the Queen before they were spoken.

He’d say, “You know, a dreadful joke coming up Oh god, oh god. Very hard, you know. And when he enjoyed a turn, he’d go When he didn’t, he’d all sit there gruffly looking at it. But the Queen seemed to enjoy everything. She applauded everything equally. So, I said in the interval, I said, “Your Majesty you seem to be enjoying the show.” I said, “Yes, I am.

” I said, “You seem to be enjoying everything um equally.” She said, “Well, I said, “But you were applauding everything equally.” I said, “Of course, yes, of course, of course.” “But on television, their families might be watching.” >> So lovely. >> So very thoughtful. >> Very thoughtful. >> But it wasn’t a performance.

I noticed on that occasion and many other occasions, waiting to go into a room as part of the royal party there at the front and then you’re in a you’re in attendance and you’re at the back. But if you were with actors, they would be getting ready to go on stage. They’d be getting themselves psyched up to go through the door.

The Queen was never like that. She would be just sort of chatting away. Oh, doing her lippy. >> Mhm. >> Um do that quite, you know, Oh, oh, oh, we’ve got to go through now. Yes, oh well. And she’d just walk through the door. >> Mhm. >> Never made an entrance. Never made No drama, no fuss.

I went to a unveiling of plaques with her. And it was almost disappointing. Duke of Edinburgh at least would Um but the Queen would just go, “There we are.” Um And what what now? And I And I remember going one of the occasions I think they’d like to sign the visitors book. Oh, is that is that now? I said, “Yes.” Oh, is there a pen? Oh, yes.

So, she’d just just do it. >> It’s a very good impression, I have to say. >> Very matter-of-fact. >> Mhm. >> Um you know. >> I had one other question. Um again, these They they just come into me now as we’re speaking. There’s a lovely anecdote about their separation when Philip went on a 4-month tour and the moment they were reunited on the plane.

Can you remember what the entourage did? Cuz I love that detail. He’d grown in beard. >> grown a big bushy beard. This was a controversial job because he was testing the new Royal Yacht Britannia and he was taking it past the Commonwealth that it had never been to before. The British press wrote it up that the marriage was on the rocks.

He’d gone away for months on end to get away from his wife and children. And that infuriated them both. Uh but while he was away, he did grow a beard. Pictures were sent back. And uh they were reunited on the plane so it would be private. I mean all the furor. So he came bounding up the steps into the airplane, into the plane itself, where he was confronted by 20 or 30 people all wearing big bushy ginger beards.

The Queen had the idea of getting them all disguised in beards like him. >> And she had one, too. >> She had one, too. >> Excellent. >> practical jokes. They loved a practical joke. Um which could be quite disconcerting. Uh who was it who told me the story of being at a house party and then playing sort of murder in the dark, one of those games where you hide.

>> It’s in the book. >> It is in the book. >> it’s the Abercorns and she goes behind a curtain. >> And and maybe the Duke of Abercorn is sort of Oh God, it’s the Queen. >> Oh no. >> Feeling her through the curtains. >> Feeling her. >> Um but they they they they loved a bit of all that. >> Charles, since the Queen’s passing, the royal family has weathered quite a few storms.

I think we’ve had the King’s illness, uh Catherine’s illness, um obviously the drama surrounding Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. How do you think that they are coping? How do you think they’re they’re getting through this? >> Well, I think the King and Queen are wonderful. And given the you’d say tough act to follow, >> Mhm. >> uh just amazingly, uh I think they’ve got off to a brilliant start.

Just it sort of worked. The transition worked. And I think people accepted the Queen was 96. They thought it was the end of an era. But it was the end of an era and yet it was a continuation of something that’s been going on for a thousand years. So that the accession worked, the way they hit the ground running, the coronation all worked.

And what’s been interesting to me is that the tragedy of Andrew, Meghan, and Windsor uh and the problems with uh Harry leaving Meghan and all of that. I think in a way has been a sideshow because the continuation has gone on so strongly. What I think it was good is that the Queen and indeed Prince Philip were accepting of changes in the world, accepting that they now were going to be the leaders of a blended family, accepted with sadness that three of their children’s marriages ended separation and divorce, but accepted

that and moved on and accepted that um Camilla uh became the Duchess of Cornwall and then became Queen, accepted that and could see and of course when they got to know uh the Camilla, they realized that she was so right and the Queen of course had so many things in common with her, not least her love of uh dogs and horses and her lack of enthusiasm for political correctness.

All these things blended brilliantly. Um so, they I think they that the old generation would have been pleased to be handing on to the new generation. And I think to be honest, uh the King and Queen absolutely straight as they go. And the big advantage of them I think the King and Queen is they’re totally authentic.

People believe that what they are is what they are. The King also has the advantage of being proved right. I mean 50 years ago we were mocking him for talking to his flowers. Now we’re all talking to our flowers because we see the excellent results they get. Um he has been right about so many things. He’s clearly totally decent.

She is totally authentic. What she cares about, she really cares about. They clearly care for each other. So, people see that. They believe that, and they’re just doing their thing. And it works. Uh and they’re doing international things, you know, they’re going to the United States of America, cuz that’s what the government says.

They will do it, and they will deliver. So, that yes, there’s been the tragedy of um Andrew and Meghan and Windsor, where I think they’ve done what the late Queen would have done. She accepted all this, that it’s had to be like that. It’s your son. Uh you know there’ve been errors of judgment, but also you are the sovereign, and she was able to separate the royal family from her personal family.

They She would have I think accepted what has happened. And the King and the Queen making it totally clear the victims come first in everybody’s thoughts. We must, but also the King has a duty of care. We’re not going to abandon somebody who happens to be my brother um because of all of this. So, I think most people um certainly anybody who’s got going to read my book uh who actually is fascinated by the phenomenon. It is a phenomenon.

Thousand years of royal history. No other country in the world who quite has it. It epitomizes brand Britain. But, they’re still real people, and what would we do without them? And I think the present lot are doing the job impeccably. And I think from all I’ve seen of William and Catherine, they have inherited from uh William’s father, and from his grandparents, all the all the tricks of the trade, and the heart, and the fundamental belief that you’re driven by duty, sustained by faith, but you need passions to keep you

happy. So long as they’ve got that combination, the King and Camilla have passions galore, real enthusiasts. They also have faith and such a commitment to duty. And duty, 70 years of that. >> That’s a wonderful way of ending the episode. Giles, thank you. >> at all. Thank you. Good luck with the book. It’s rather a big fact book.

>> a fact book. >> This is the paperback, but also >> Like you say, great images. >> Great images and fairly large typeface. This My wife insisted that some of your readers will be of ripe years like me, darling. >> I love it. >> Yeah. There are there some funny pictures of of of me in this as well.

Not very many though. I wanted more in this new Just a >> It’s not about you. >> A page Exactly. It’s not about me. It’s about Elizabeth on her centenary. An intimate portrait. Oh, we didn’t talk about We had no time. Winnie the Pooh. >> We have time. Tell us about Winnie. >> I’ll just tell you this briefly. Um cuz the book I wrote after this is about Winnie the Pooh, Christopher Robin and A. A. Milne.

It’s the centenary of the Queen and the centenary of Winnie the Pooh. It’s extraordinary. And everyone thinks that the Queen loved Paddington Bear most. That’s because everybody knew the Queen in recent years and that was that wonderful sketch with her and Paddington Bear at the time of the Platinum Jubilee.

And she did love Paddington Bear. She told me she also liked Rupert Bear. But she told me her favorite bear was undoubtedly Winnie the Pooh. And when she was married in 1947, the Archbishop of York gave a children’s book by A. A. Milne as a wedding present. >> She was that much of a fan. >> And the first book, she told me this, the first book dedicated to the Queen when she was born as a little baby was the songs of Winnie the Pooh.

Her first book was Winnie the Pooh. So, they had a a centenary together. So, there you are. >> I love it. >> So, Winnie the She loved Winnie the Pooh. >> This is This is hot off the press. >> Hot off the press. You think hot off the press is my favorite royal family It’s called somewhere a boy and a bear. >> Well done.

>> She missed She couldn’t read that. So, um I’ve sent it to the new queen. >> I’m sure she’ll be a big fan. >> I hope so. That’s all I hope she read that. I love the look of it. It’s the number one best seller. >> Congratulations. >> Fascinating. Was it reviewed by Hello? Did Hello Oh, yes. Look at this. Hello.

>> Yes. >> Prince has a unique picture, fascinating insights. Hello. Hello. Anyway, it’s wonderful to be on the right royal podcast. >> Thank you so much. >> having you on, darling. And Giles, you’ve said it yourself. When you get to 96 and you’re not Gaga, you’ll have to come back. >> I would like to come back.

I want to get to In fact, my next book is about living to be 100. >> Okay. >> I I’ll give the money back if I don’t get there. Uh do you remember you know who lived to 99? >> He did. He did. >> That’s the way to do it. >> Yeah. >> That’s right. >> Thank you so much. It’s been an absolute delight. >> That’s all from us today.

Thank you so much to Giles for joining us. >> And to you for listening. Don’t forget, you can get more from Hello with our entertainment podcast, The Daily Lowdown, available on Spotify, Apple, and wherever you get your podcasts. Bye.